I told her that I was leaving on a work trip and that the situation was unclear so I could not say how long I would be away, and then I left for Vnukovo. And staff migration is quite high. Adamovich: Whats his name and patronymic? All this information was accumulated in my sub-group and had practical effect on what actions and effort should we assign to decontamination and disposal works. He left without punishment, so to say. If, however, the researchers received robots that had good all-terrain travel capability in the most difficult conditions, then their electronics would fail because of the high gamma radiation and they also stopped. Adamovich: But people were living in Chernobyl for seven more days. On the evening of 26 April, the radiation levels were within permissable limits. Although I had not been able to describe the issue in such a way, he did. The tape was valery legasov refers to transcripts and professional. As far as I can imagine, but this is within my ability, Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev, I spoke with him three times. Even Chernobyl was quite. The station director. But the operational staff there is considerably smaller than in our stations. The diagnostic devices were inserted from under reactor number 4. The first four tapes feature only Legasov giving a recounting of the entire event, from the moment he learned of the accident to his final days at the Kurchatov Institute. All this work was done by the Soviet Ministry of Water and by the Ukrainian Ministry of Waterdone within a remarkably short time. Such technical means and devices which are generally used in many military systems, in missile complexes, in nuclear weapons, had not been used. Legasov: No, we have 14 VVER devices without containments. Then we built the Beloyarsk Nuclear Power Station and the Novovoronezh Nuclear Power Station. In economy, in cost per kilowatt-hour of energy, in fuel consumption, it was about the same as VVER, better in some ways, worse in others. Another thing that surprised me about the Operative group is that it never tried to be secretive about their decisions. But there was no time. After the 2nd of May, we stopped the drops for some time. I must say that, of course, there were many senseless things done in the course of this work. But as is evident from the Chernobyl disaster, this organisational superstructure couldnt actually improve the state of the nuclear energy industry because its authority was not defined properly. The radiation conditions in Pripyat were considerably worse than normal, but at the time did not pose any significant danger to the people in the city. This is a very obvious scenario. The first because it melts at low temperatures and because it has some ability to extract radioactive elements, on top of which it can act as a protective shield against gamma rays - these facts made it a good option. So they voted him down at the elections to the Academic Council. The system of a singular person being personally responsible for the quality of the devicewith all the facilities it was installed inwas absent. Before he started, I heard that an unpleasant accident had occurred at the, Chernobyl nuclear power plant. It has everything. If you would wish to read them, then here, we translated them for English readers: Tape 1 side A In this part Legasov speaks about his first days in the accident zone. I remember that the future Minister of Medium Machine Building, comrade Ryabev, who had replaced Meshkov in the GC, himself led the group (after receiving the recipe for preparing the solutions that could solidify and create polymeric films on the surface). They were ventilating the hydrogen bubble. These surveys were done for both the total amount of gamma radiation and the isotope spectrum of gamma radiation. I remember the time when the Government Commission was still in Pripyat, we didnt have enough respirators, personal dosimeters called TLDs, and even somewhat reliable pencil dosimeters, that would show some measurements. On the way, I told Shcherbina the story of the accident at Three Mile Island in detail. And it complicated my relationship with the Ministry when I tried to, not very carefully, speak out on this issue. the morning at the Ministry, which owns the Institute of Atomic Energy. Something else will happen. It is possible to safely talk about the programs that are led by Ruteny Mikhailovich Polevoy who established several of them. [22], On 2 May, he and other commission members reported to visiting high-ranking officials that this was no ordinary industrial accident but would require a significant containment effort, as well as a review of the future of the other reactors. Their actions were rational. Firstly, the 3rd block was ordered to shut down. How would we feel then? That is because Iodine fell out first. All in all, this quick and diligent work of the people that were delivering the materials resulted in the reactor being plugged around the 2nd of May. This is when Aleksander Petrovich and Vyacheslav Pavlovich Volkov, director of the Kola and then the Zaporozhye nuclear power stations, recently told me about an episode, where a group of his comrades visited the Kola station, and witnessed, in his opinion, a complete disorder in the organisation of the technical process. These are all the thoughts that come to mind in connection with the Chernobyl accident. When I arrived there for the first time, I witnessed a grim scene because the first proper dosimetric posts were set up there. Anyway Also, there was an episode that I will talk about later. Normally, everything would be stored on a single personal computer, in one or two disks, located next to the operator so that he could at any moment clarify something. On the 26th in the evening. He assigned me the post of the First Deputy and I worked for them for many years. . Get started for FREE Continue. Operating experience, technical solutions that had been used, software, all these could be exchanged and adapted. So his comrade, having arrived to get familiar with the work of this [Chernobyl] station, reported that everything was wrong there. We arrived at the building of the city party committee in the central square. But this one looked like a metallurgical factory or a giant chemistry plant with a huge crimson glow over half of the visible sky. Dosimetrists with devices, instead of assault rifles, should have been everywhere. But they were painfully lacking in good control systems and extremely poor in diagnostic systems. Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko had repeatedly criticised it. The already-scouted areas were showing higher radiation levels, and the number of such areas was increasing. This was very disturbing to us, and it made clear the extraordinary nature of the situation. But now recalling those days of May, I must say that after N.I.Ryzhkov and E.K.Ligachev had visited the accident sites and verified the situation, we received a command: the composition of the Government commission should be changed. They said that things were probably bad. And this emission was registered by almost all the countries of the world. There were a couple of thousand of such cars in the city. This base was quite contaminated. Adamovich: I will note all this down. For example, I actually can today. After that, evaluate what type of energy must be replaced with nuclear energy, then assess which regions are the most appropriate for it, and then define the requirements for the devices that will optimally fit the tasks that stemmed from the fuel and energy balance of the country. The air force, the helicopter groups, worked very precisely. Of course, we continuously gathered air samples on filters to measure the amounts and the dynamics of the radioactivity that was being exhaust. He was in shock all of the time. Thats why more staff is needed to operate our stations, there are many poor devices, many imprecisions in the operating systems that service the station. Numerous councils, interdepartmental or departmental, created an overall atmosphere of joint responsibility for the quality of the device. This is only a specific example. Do you understand? There is a lot of confusion in the international press, for example, that Velikhov was measuring something on the roofs around the 26th, Evgeny Pavlovich [Velikhov]. It was partially used in his [TEXT UNAVAILABLE IN SOURCE]. [1], The conference was a public relations triumph for the Soviets as it reassured Western governments and scientists that the disaster was being contained[26] and that the Soviets could competently manage nuclear power in the future. Rarely have any of us really spoken frankly and accurate about this. Legasov: Hope this isnt confusing to you. In reality, all this was stored in old and used books. These robots have played a huge role even today because many interesting things have been discovered with their help regarding the questions related to the nature and consequences of the accident. Because the philosophy of safety does not depend on what you are dealing with, be it a nuclear reactor, a biological facility where viruses propagate, a chemical plant or something else. Where did this come from? Work was the man, almost the only meaning of his life. When the first experiments in 1982 and 1983 showed that during a coastdown, the turbine does not maintain the necessary electrotechnical parameters to serve the stations own needs, nobody even thought about solving this problem from the other side, more precisely, reducing the time needed for the backup diesel generators to start and output at the required levels. While the first group would go to Moscow, on the site the second group would be led by the chairman of the Ministry Council Ivan Stepanovich Silaev. As I already said, the RBMK device is not easy to operate because instabilities, that are possible in principle, frequently occur in its working modes and this makes having simulators near every RBMK device more important. Moreover, particularly under Vedernikov, with the participation of the group leader from the Institute of Nuclear Energy, comrade Tutnov, a decision was taken that made the construction of the sarcophagus easier and quicker. At least not at the age that I currently am, just into my fifties. These were the sanitary rules that existed at the time. The first drops were, it seems, at the end of the day on the 27th. The concept of science leadership came down to a system where the basic principles of constructing a device were given to the designer, and the science supervisor was responsible for those principles to be physically correct and safe. Once a magazine called Business Week fell into my hands. [7], Excessive hierarchy has always been contraindicated for science, it stifles it. That was true indeed. And the second situation, protecting the shore and rivers against the melting water [in spring] which carries away various debris contaminated with radioactive elementswood chips or needles that fell in the contaminated forestthat could lead to rather significant radiation damage. Say they allowed it and some cars left, some of the residents left in their own cars, but the cars were, of course, contaminated. Even more actually because nasty isotopes would spread, much heavier than caesium that we mentioned earlier. Numerous other scientists from the Institute of Nuclear Energy and the Ministry of Energy took active part in our discussions. The first way is to briefly, clearly and plainly explain that, from the very beginning, the Soviet Union did not conceal anything. [1] After the meeting, Scherbina told him that he could work from Moscow but was quickly ordered back to Chernobyl. At the same time, I want to highlight the fact that although these things are irritating when faced day after day, at that moment the people were so determined, they so wanted to complete their work, that all these past cases of sloppiness did not cause any fuss or outcry. But caesium and strontium, these emissions, they did spread to large areas. For all new projects and new ideas, this design organisation fully recognized the authority of the Institute of Nuclear Energy, and readily consulted with it and maintained contact. The wells are in place, are monitored and are functional. According to existing sanitary norms, decisions were taken that set the maximum limits [of radiation exposure] that allowed people to live in areas contaminated by certain isotopes. So I did not know many details or specific discussions. Groundwater protection became one of our most important problems immediately around May. [5] Since December 1978, the Legasov family kept a high-bred pet chow-chow. All these he called organisational measures. I graduated from the Faculty of Physicochemical Engineering of the Moscow Institute of Chemistry and Technology named after Mendeleyev. Valery Legasov is a real person The Mad Men actor is playing Valery Legasov. Firstly, because it would melt and a sufficient amount of energy would be spent in melting it. Moreover, the new specialists reflected the standard of the design organisations in their qualifications. First, make the device itself, say, a nuclear reactor maximally safe. Around noon, a break was announced and I went up to the second floor, to the office of the Science Secretary Nikolay Sergeevich Babay to discuss the report. And when I visited the Chernobyl station after the accident and saw what was happening there, I myself drew a precise and unequivocal conclusion, that the Chernobyl disaster is an apotheosis, the pinnacle of all the mismanagement that has been carried out for decades in our country. But within 25 - 75 biological roentgens, the decision to evacuate lied with the local authorities. How can I listen to Valery Legasov tapes? The Chernobyl part of this section would be exclusively official, to provide precise information from the Government Commission at the time when this section is released; and the second part should be an emotional part, narrative with personal opinions. During the initial days in Pripyat, food was delivered: cucumbers, tomatoes, sausages, Pepsi-cola bottles, lemonades. They checked the documentation - all the signatures were in place. The party organisation was removed. For some reason, many sources state that there was one explosion, or two explosions, or a hydrogen explosion, or a non-hydrogen explosion. Here's the text so you can have a look: Which button to press, how long to wait, what to do. And finally analyze the possibility of continuing the construction of 5th and 6th blocks. The total amount of words for the first tape is around 8000 words, but I might eliminate some of the text. They started flyovers above reactor number 4 to assess the situation. We arrived on the 26th at 8.20 pm. I started this journey more than a year ago, worked with some great Russian translators to make Valery's words seem as close to life as possible. Comrade SOROKA was Deputy to the General, Prosecutor of the USSR and Fyodor Shcherbak, the head of one of the i, divisions of the State Security Committee, was included in the composition of the, Governmental Commission, and the Deputy Chairman of the CM of. The scale of contamination in the areas adjacent to the Chernobyl station, as well as the scale of contamination around the world, is more or less known to us. Yurchenko Yury Fedorovich was the director of this organization. Because, of coursethis is interestingeveryone arrives, the dosimetrists measure them and everyones clothes are contaminated. They must be included. With the same . The Legasov Tapes Featured August 16, 2019 Tape 1 side A Aym96/Wikimedia In all my life, it never occurred to me that I would have to start this part of my life. For example, robots made at the Kurchatov Institute of Nuclear Energy. There is thermonuclear and nuclear physics, isotope separation and usage, radiochemistry and whatever the hell else. [5], the information I had convinced me that not everything was well in the development of nuclear energy, as it seemed to me Science organizations began to weaken, not strengthen. The system for warning the Ministry of Energy about an accident was adopted beforehand, long before the accident. I only know that the population was informed at night and early in the morning by going to all the flats and placing on duty. Legasov: Because 2,500 degrees is the melting point of the uranium dioxide pellets, and the main radioactivity sits inside these pellets. In Soviet nuclear energy, precisely because of the pace that had to be quite high, because ten years had been lost, this third element, from my point of view, was criminally ignored. All these measures were, and I repeat myself, planned on the evening of the 26th of April. Complex research was done in the cooling pond near the Chernobyl NPP, where the radioactivity of the water, as well as silt, was measured. It simply shocked me. In Kiev, after we got off our plane, what surprised us was a long line of black government cars and an anxious crowd of various Ukrainian chairmen, led by comrade Lyashko Aleksander Petrovich. For example, the injection of liquid nitrogen that was done per my proposal made around the 2nd of May and implemented around the 4th or 5th of May. I tried to explain to him that there was no possibility of dropping iron shot because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. Various parts of fuel assemblies were visible. And what international measures have been taken, what conventions have been adopted, what was the Soviet position on international cooperation. The permission for evacuation is issued by the Ministry of Health of USSR; not the Council of Ministers or the Central Committee of the CPSU but the Ministry of Health. The station personnel was transferred to a Pioneers camp Skazochniy, that was 10 km from Pripyat. However, an event occurred, of such a scale, of such involvement of people with controversial interests, of errors and victories, failures and successes. After our high-ranked guests had arrived, they deliberately started their visit from the places where evacuees had been placed. Because, well, one telegram was just provocative, clearly provocative. The first days were especially difficult. [7] Legasov considered these containment steps to be excessive but understandable, while also provided the infrastructure for the eventual construction of a shelter sarcophagus over the reactor. And Pripyat appeared, at the time of the explosion, it appeared to be clean. The RBMK reactor has only one protection [system], unlike the VVER reactor, which is a flagrant violation of principles, the first mistake. And finally, sand. Some of the station personnel got flats in Kiev city and some in Chernigov. These questions were discussed with the director. The relevant passages in Higginbotham's 'Midnight in Chernobyl' with respect to the Vienna Conference say:. [15][16] From 1978 to 1983, he was a professor at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology. For example, decisions of some sort were taken like the launch date of 1st and 2nd blocks, or sarcophagus completion time, or works on 5th or 6th blocks, or Pripyat conservation decisions. [2] While he was a shy student, he excelled in both academic work and social activities being elected secretary of his school's Komsomol committee. Legasov: So, on that day and the following days, there was regular communication with Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov and Vladimir Ivanovich Dolgikh. I have already mentioned that I had proposed from the beginning to create a press group under the Government Commission that would correctly inform the population about the events that were happening, that would give the right advice. Undoubtedly, science will address this and things will improve but not by 100 or 150 times. Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko had repeatedly criticised it. But as you can understand from the talk, I am the director of my own department that supports the nuclear fuel cycle, that is, separating the isotopes, disposal of radioactivity My position is of an external observer, as it were, and also of a participant. Here I recall many such annoying episodes. Legasov's health had worsened and he often made visits to Moscow Hospital 6 for long term effects of radiation exposure. David R. Marples has suggested the adversity of the Chernobyl disaster on his psychological state was the factor leading to his decision to take his own life[6] and that Legasov had become bitterly disillusioned with the failure of the authorities to confront the design flaws. You would start moving along this corridor and suddenly run into a wall. Well, so as to not use [TAPE ERASED]. A lot of dams was constructed, dykes, that were meant to hold the contaminated debris, foliage and all that had contaminated the surface of the water and prevent radioactivity from spreading along the Pripyat and the Dnieper. There were reverse cases as well, when, say, where should have been a wall according to the drawings, in reality, was a doorway. Sidorenko and I, when we had moved to Chernobyl after spending a week in Pripyat, went to a shopwe were supposed to be the expertsto buy ourselves at least something, new underpants, undershirts, shirts. Hello people! And in the report I prepared for Vienna, to tell the truth, the Central Committee removed this phrase, but it was in the initial version, that among the ineffective measures was supplying liquid nitrogen. He was against it, objected to it together with the experts, but then went on to meet the stubborn requirements of State Planning Committee and the Ministry of Energy, that stations can be built without containments. This was followed by a routine report that continued for two hours. The journey was gloomy. First of all, it must be noted that this is an experiment that should not have been performed at a nuclear power plant, because the value of turbine coastdown at idle is something that should be measured on a special stand built by the designer of the turbine. It also decomposes the same way. Of course, what happened at Chernobyl has real, not abstract, culprits to blame. So the main work was undertaken by Abaghian Armen Artavazdovich, the Director of VNIIAES, the Institute of Atomic Energy Stations, that is presently under the Ministry of Atomic Energy and was under the Ministry of Energy earlier. Legasov: Uranium yes, the fuel itself. They see the director, who is a corresponding member of the Academy of Sciences, and their [own] salary is lousy. Slowly, once the most powerful in the country, they began to lose the standard of modern equipment. This all had some psychological effect on Ivan Stepanovich Silaev and he authorized the works. Earlier I described the work before and after the containment of the accident, but an even more essential element of the decision of our Government Commission on 26 April was the question of the population. Legasov: Ministry of Medium Machine Building. Valery Alekseevich Legasov About the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant annotation The text of the five cassette tapes, dictated by Academician Legasovym V.A. It contains the above introduction and the original translation of the text, which I will replace with my revised version when I finish it. For if it had appeared, it would have appeared in the Chernobyl days. It had high temperatures which meant that we could use it in metallurgy, chemistry and oil refining. The Government Commission's meeting was led very vigorously, in his usual manner, by Boris Yevdokimovich Shcherbina. So, from a strictly professional perspective, I understand the safety issues, and how to manage them, very well. I cannot exactly tell how much time he spent in Chernobyl, and took the most thorough part in data collection, their correct estimation, researching the history of the appearance of contamination spots. Grave mistakes. They could not get any more than 3-4% of radioactivity that had escaped reactor number 4. how much did it increase? He is now mainly remembered for his work as the chief of the commission investigating the Chernobyl disaster. But his proposals were met with hostility; as well as the proposals about a new safer reactor from Viktor Vladimirovich Orlov who had come to the institute. You hang your suit on a tree, wherever you are. But in practice, the design organisations have not strengthened, except for one, but have remained at the same habitual level of carrying out their originally-assigned duties. But yet, even after these measuresand all the experts in the Soviet Union knew thisfrom a control point of view, this reactor required a lot of attention from the operator and always was quite complex. He always listened to our scientific discussionswhat we would talk about, what we would needand reacted instantly. This was a difficult task which was fulfilled heroically by the station personnel. It proposed to create another explosion by introducing nitrate mixtures there. Nevertheless, various organisations were doing such things, creating such projects for an external shell that, if installed, would only complicate subsequent work on the construction of the shelter, and would not have had any effect on the release of aerosol radiation. Boris Eudokimovich [Scherbina] remained the leader of the Government commission, but a decision was made that all further work on the site would be performed by a second group. I liked him from the very beginning. And so if we add liquid nitrogen to the airand we had, very quickly I must say, an entire train of nitrogen brought to usthen that cold air would cool the hot zone better. There was a construction base on the territory where machinery and materials needed for the construction of the 5th and 6th blocks were stored. And here, at this moment, the main fundamental philosophical mistake in our approach to safety was made. This launch was carried out successfully. Moreover, the number of enterprises who were involved in the production of various equipment for a nuclear power plant had also increased. I have not seen a single group in the Soviet Union that raised and considered [the analysis of nuclear safety] with any degree of competence As for the RBMK reactor, you know, in reactor circles, it was considered a bad reactor. It seemed to me that this was not a scientific approach to solve the safety-related problems of nuclear energy. It was not in the design, but it was there and not shown in any of the drawings. The following decisions were taken. At the same time, I managed to set up a laboratory for safety measures that evaluated the various dangers of nuclear energy compared to other types of energy. All that has been given to me so far shows no difference from Moscow to Minsk or anywhere else. I must resign. During the first days of the Chernobyl tragedy, the flaws in our information services were very evident. However, it would guarantee that no contaminated water got into the Kyiv Sea. But the problem is that they were put in such a situation. It came down to this that the research group from the Institute of Nuclear Energy together with experts (this group was successively led by experts such as Yury Vasilievich Svincev, Anatoly Mihailovich Polevoi, Tutnov as I have already said; next this group was led by comrade Kuharkin Nikolai Evgenievich. Thats why in the end, the most reliable method was to use radio-controlled bulldozers or just simple scraper bulldozers, our ordinary vehicles, cabins of which were reliably covered with lead to protect the driver. This is the law of the theory of safety. Then the cows ate the grass with Iodine. On the whole, this extraordinary situationnot a trivial situation, a tragic situation, a difficult situation of immense magnitudehas shown that it requires not only the mobilisation of considerable communication resources, but also a very creative and skilful use of these resources, to ensure that the population receives information in the needed sequence and quantity, who can refer to the information with complete confidence, and most importantly, be able to use this information for practical purposes; or to indicate when to worry, and conversely, when to stay calm so that it is quite regular and not sudden. 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